Article: Why will no one join me?

[dolarmak 23]

This article was intended for an online magazine that's been suspended but I decided to post it anyway.

 

Disclaimer: These are the views of the author and are not necessarily the views of GDU, RMU or it's staff.

 

Why will no one join me?

 

Any one who has started working with any game engine to build a game for the first time has thought to themselves: “Hey, why don’t I get a team together to help me work on this project?†And it seems like a reasonable thing to ask. I mean you already know that games require many resources to be completed and you can’t be expected to know how to do all of them can you? No, not every one is good at coding, rendering, pixel art, mapping or writing. So why not ask people who are much more knowledgeable to help you out with your project.

 

Your idea is awesome and you’re sure every one will love it. So you Google the engine you’re using and find a nice community of independent game makers like yourself and sign up. You rush over to the Recruitment forums because every one needs help once in a while, and post your first topic: Insert Game Title Recruiting! With a nifty description about the game and maybe a few lines of the initial concept you’ve been toying with for the last three days.

 

Now it’s been 3 months, you’ve been waiting for people to join your team to get the game started but you notice no one has messaged you back. You look to see that a few people have made comments asking for more details or just spamming your thread with slander.

 

What happened? Why were these people uncooperative or even hostile to your game idea? Well maybe they’re just mean on this website so you’ve decided to move on and try the next big forum that Google says supports your game engine. Once again you post your Recruitment thread and after about 2 weeks you get the same messages.

Why is this happening? Is it just you?

 

You go down the list and look at the other threads and notice a pattern. No one with less than 500 posts on the forums is even looked at seriously. Sure there is a great team of people working on a game with tons of awesome scripts, systems and they even have 50 screenshots of their progress. But you notice that each member has been on the forum for years.

 

What’s up with that? Why them and not you?

 

 

Now I’m here to explain to you why. It’ll be painful to hear but it’s the honest truth: Nobody Cares!

 

That’s it. No one on these sites really cares about your great game idea. And to be honest, why should they? You just showed up out of the blue and posted a two paragraph summery of what your game is about and asked for help. Sure your idea might be awesome to you, but on these sites we’ve seen them a million times. Every day people post their ideas on the forums and are expecting to make a team for their game.

 

Now I’m not saying that your game isn’t worth making, of course it is. But it’s you who will have to make it.

 

I know it doesn’t seem fair that you’ll have to learn every aspect of game making in order to do what you want but that’s life. You haven’t proven to any one on the forum that you’re worth taking a risk to help in such a demanding way. And yes it is demanding. Making a game can take you any where from 500-3,000 hours of work or more.

 

So you better be ready to put in the hours. Be prepared to prove yourself to the community that you’re not just some half wit wanting to remake your favorite game. When people see that you’ve actually made an effort by yourself, that you’ve got something on the go and won’t just abandon it because your life got to complicated or finals drained you, they will be open to helping you out.

 

Now if you’re having trouble with smaller aspects of the game, like a script won’t work or you don’t know how to do a certain action, feel more than welcome to ask for help. On an individual basis these forums are havens for newcomers. People are more than willing to give up 20-30 minutes to give a little advice or help, but don’t expect a long term commitment.

 

It’s up to you to make your game, not the game making communities. Once you’ve been on the forums for a while and know how to get around the engine people will be much more willing to help you out on a more long term basis.

 

So keep at it, don’t get discouraged by set backs and ask for help when you need it, but be ready to do the work. And never forget to thank the people helping you out!

[Saltome 16]

     First of all, what does this have to do with "news", especially if it's a "personal" opinion?

     Heh, is that all, "Nobody cares, because you are new."? You think saying it out like that makes it all right? I hate to disappoint you but there are people who care, you just aren't one of them.

     Why should they care you ask? Because this is a SUPPORT forum, not look-at-my-big-head forum. Because when everybody in a group does what's in their personal interest, the group falls apart. Because helping others makes the forum stronger, and you as a part of that forum are benefited as well.

     "This is life" you say. Well let me break it to you, YOU are part of that life, YOU make the rules, and those are YOUR rules. And as much as you want to delude yourself, those are the consequences of your actions. If you don't like people always asking for help, do something to integrate those people into the forum.

     I've been in this business for years, it's not about how much effort they put in. it's about how you use your power, and people like you, don't. You might think that you know more than me, but you don't. You might think you know how the world works, but you have no idea what makes it work.

     People lack foresight, they have to get burned to know that fire is hot. But It's unfortunate that the whole forum has to suffer the consequences from the choices of a few elitist members.

[dolarmak 23]

 

  First of all, what does this have to do with "news", especially if it's a "personal" opinion?

First Saltome I feel like I should point out that this is an ARTICLE I had written for an online magazine (and another site), as the title states. I put this in the News section so people who only check the main page would see it. If we had a newsletter I would put it there, but since we don't have one (it was you who was doing to do that wasn't it, or was that just game news feed? I can't remember) I put it where every one who visits the site will see.

 

Second, Yes this is entirely my opinion, again as stated in the disclaimer. If you have a problem with my opinion that's fine, but at least read the whole article of writing before attacking me on things clearly stated in and at the beginning of it. This isn't the first time you've done this to me and it makes you look (at least to me) less intelligent and creditable.

 

 

Heh, is that all, "Nobody cares, because you are new."? You think saying it out like that makes it all right? I hate to disappoint you but there are people who care, you just aren't one of them.

I do care, but like almost every one I know I'm not willing to put an incredible amount of time for a project with some one who more than likely won't get the game off the first step(and so far this includes you since I haven't exactly seen you volunteer to help a noobie who just joins with no info/experience for their project but are looking for a team). This isn't an article about experienced people who already have a plan and 1/3 of their game already programmed, it's about the tons of people who are brand new to the indy game making scene who believe that by asking for a team of people to make their game it'll get finished, which isn't true. These people need to understand that because they have so little experience and no relationship with the people they are asking for MAJOR help from, that they will in most cases get no responses. I'm not trying to discourage them from making their game, I'm letting them know that at the beginning they will need to learn the majority of stuff themselves before they can get a group of people to help with such big projects.

 

 

Why should they care you ask? Because this is a SUPPORT forum, not look-at-my-big-head forum.

Yes this is a support forum, not a group gathering forum. Again as I said in my article if they need help with a script or advice we (the community as a whole, not just RMU) are always willing to give 20-30 minutes of our time to explain or help.

 

 

Because when everybody in a group does what's in their personal interest, the group falls apart. Because helping others makes the forum stronger, and you as a part of that forum are benefited as well.

This is true, but that isn't the point of the article. The article is about why no one is joining them in the first place.

 

 

"This is life" you say. Well let me break it to you, YOU are part of that life, YOU make the rules, and those are YOUR rules. And as much as you want to delude yourself, those are the consequences of your actions. If you don't like people always asking for help, do something to integrate those people into the forum.

I'm not saying that these are the rules Saltome. I'm letting people know from personal experience that just joining a random forum with an idea and no actual work done, that their goal of a game won't be fulfilled. It's not that I'm tired of people joining and asking for help, what I'm tired of is these newcomers being so discouraged by the lack of excitement for their project idea that they quit altogether. It's important for people to understand that life isn't easy, making games isn't easy, but if they stick to it they can persevere. Also that they can't always expect every one to jump up and help them with every aspect of the project, that they will have to do most of the leg work to get it done. It is hard work to make a game and it's important that newcomers to the scene realize this if they truly want to get their game made.

 

 

You might think that you know more than me, but you don't. You might think you know how the world works, but you have no idea what makes it work.

This is your opinion, and success is the only proof you can give. I'm a few years older than you and have had many hardships to over come, both in my professional life and game making. Don't presume to know what another person's experiences are, you'll just make yourself look bad.

 

 

I've been in this business for years, it's not about how much effort they put in. it's about how you use your power, and people like you, don't.

Power is only attained by others giving it to you, this is a fact. And that power can be taken from you by them when ever they want. Effort is something that only you have, no one can take it away from you. This is not an issue about power, it's an issue about effort. If you're not willing to put the effort in your own project you will not get anywhere. Support forums like RMU aren't here to cater to your every whim, they are here to help you when you are having trouble. They expect you to put forth some kind of effort before helping and if you can't see that then your projects will fail.

We're all human beings and it's human nature to help those who are struggling, not to help those who are demanding and giving no real time. This is the same reason why peasants hated lords. Help those who help themselves, greedy bums be damned.

 

 

People lack foresight, they have to get burned to know that fire is hot. But It's unfortunate that the whole forum has to suffer the consequences from the choices of a few elitist members.

While I agree people do lack foresight, this isn't the point of the article.

[Saltome 16]

I'll pass. I understand your view, but we need a solution. And effort must be put into realizing that solution, I think it's the stronger side that should make that effort.

[Marked 197]

And effort must be put into realizing that solution, I think it's the stronger side that should make that effort.

Again Salty, this is off-topic. The article is talking about project recruitment. I don't really have too much to say about the article. I agree with it. Someone needs to tell the newbies to bugger off until they can actually contribute to their own project.

 

But It's unfortunate that the whole forum has to suffer the consequences from the choices of a few elitist members.

Who and how are they elitists? (Or don't bother mentioning it if we're going off topic again).

 

I thought I'd highlight these 3 things:

And as much as you want to delude yourself

there are people who care, you just aren't one of them.

I've been in this business for years, it's not about how much effort they put in. it's about how you use your power, and people like you, don't. You might think that you know more than me, but you don't. You might think you know how the world works, but you have no idea what makes it work.

According to you he is deluded, doesn't care, doesn't use his power, doesn't know more than you and has no idea how the world works.

No offense? Srsly though. Dolar is such a nice guy he didn't even give it back to you. That's a quality mod right there. But someone needs to tell you not to be an asshole. It's fine if you got a reason but you don't. At 23 you've got the world figured out, that's great. You must be a real under achiever though, because I can't concentrate with the sound of you blowing your own trumpet for no apparent reason. Bless us with the knowledge you have obtained over all those years, so I can scrutinize it line by line.

 

I forgive you btw.

[Saltome 16]

Hmph, I avoided getting deeper in the argument because I know it's not gonna lead to anything, like the other 50 times we argued about it.

Off topic? No, directing your attention to the source of the problem rather than the problem at hand isn't really "off topic". And someone needs to tell them to bugger off? That's a great strategy for attracting people, let's crush their hopes and dreams right from the start that ought to make them great developers.

Yes deluding himself, people just love deluding themselves that they have no part in the way "life is" so they don't have to do anything to change it.

How does he care? He publicly stated that in his opinion nobody cares, I believe that includes himself. And worse, me and everyone else who want to improve the overall situation, rather than chasing their own interests.

And yes, if he really thinks "that's how life is" and that he has no involvement in it, he has no idea how the world works.

And yes I can be an asshole, I am tired of listening to people telling each other how life sucks and they can't do anything about it. If that's the attitude you are gonna give to the people you might as well keep it to yourself. I've spend a lot of my life giving hope to people, and I will not accept someone crushing their dreams in such a selfish and inconsiderate way.

I'm far from thinking that I know everything about the world, but I know how it works, I know how people think, and I know how an insecure youth will react to being told that nobody cares about the effort they are putting in their dream, because trust me no matter what you think about them they are giving it their all and nobody cares anyway.

And yes I'm an underachiever, all my skills are based on support, cooperation and organization, you can understand why it's so hard to achieve anything with my skillset in my situation.

 

And I don't remember asking for your forgiveness, if you really think I say things just cause I got nothing better to do, you really have no idea what I'm about.

Now, do I have to explain myself any further?

[Meteor Rain 0]

Perhaps you should lock this topic, I smell a big shitstorm coming soon. A big one.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Meteor Rain

[Marked 197]

Perhaps you should lock this topic, I smell a big shitstorm coming soon. A big one.

Nah, we got this.

 

And I don't remember asking for your forgiveness, if you really think I say things just cause I got nothing better to do, you really have no idea what I'm about.

Now, do I have to explain myself any further?

The forgiveness thing was a joke to try and lighten things up.

 

Hmph, I avoided getting deeper in the argument because I know it's not gonna lead to anything, like the other 50 times we argued about it.

Off topic? No, directing your attention to the source of the problem rather than the problem at hand isn't really "off topic". And someone needs to tell them to bugger off? That's a great strategy for attracting people, let's crush their hopes and dreams right from the start that ought to make them great developers.

I never really thought you were wrong. I think you both have valid points on different levels. To sum up Dolar's post, he is saying that members who want to recruit other people to work on their project should at least have something to show and bring their own skillset to the table. My interpretation of his article is that one cares 1. you've got barely any progress on the project so far; and 2. you can't make games. I don't think what you're talking about applies yet. That comes later on when people have good project or good plan and they know how to use an engine.

 

Do you get what I'm trying to say here?

[Saltome 16]

I know what he means, and I agree that people are rushing when they try to make a team right off the bad, but you can't tell people that they have to do everything on their own, it's gonna scare them away.

And there is one important flaw with his policy. Basically what he's saying is that you can't get a job because you have no experience, and that you need a job to get experience, so where do you go from there? What's more if people had the experience expected of them to join a team they wouldn't have to work on a team, they could do everything  themselves. Further more, it's ineffective for all the people on a team to have the same skillset.

This is a simple rule of commerce, if you want something you have to give something in return. If you expect people to have experience you have to do something so they can gain experience.

And don't forget that they don't need a community that refuses to acknowledge them, but we need them to continue our existence.

[dolarmak 23]

And there is one important flaw with his policy. Basically what he's saying is that you can't get a job because you have no experience, and that you need a job to get experience, so where do you go from there? What's more if people had the experience expected of them to join a team they wouldn't have to work on a team, they could do everything  themselves. Further more, it's ineffective for all the people on a team to have the same skillset.

This is a simple rule of commerce, if you want something you have to give something in return. If you expect people to have experience you have to do something so they can gain experience.

And don't forget that they don't need a community that refuses to acknowledge them, but we need them to continue our existence.

That's where you're wrong Saltome. Using your analogy of job hunting; what I am saying is that because these people have no experience and nothing to show so far they can't expect to land an executive position. They need to start smaller and work up the ladder.

 

In the Indy game making scene that means building one or a few smaller games that are less extravagant to build up their skills, experience and relationships withe members on the boards they frequent. These smaller projects are usually done solo, and if you ask any one on the board or on the other big RM boards they will tell you it's exactly what every one else has done. Until you know what your good at and what you're not so hot on, you can't really expect much. Again people who are really determined to build their game will understand and will be dedicated enough to work hard and learn as much as they can while solidifying their 'Amazing Project'. You can not expect to get everything you want right off the bat and if you do then you either a fool or have to pay for it. These people still don't know how to do anything in RM yet, so asking for a team is basically asking for some one else to build your product for you...for free, that is what we call 'taking advantage of people'.

 

When they've shown some progress, that they know what they want and are dedicated to making it, by all means that's the time to post your recruitment topic. Then what you've said starts to apply. Don't get too ahead of yourself here in this topic, like I said this is for those completely new to the game making scene.

[Moonpearl 32]

Nice article dolarmak, I completely agree with it. I once told some guy who was in that situation, if your think people should definitely join your project, ask yourself why don't you join theirs?

[Saltome 16]

I'm glad that you put it this way Moonpearl. I don't know why exactly I should join someone else's team if I think that someone must join my team, but I see what you are saying nonetheless. So let me ask you, when is the last time you let some newbie join your projects? Because in the time I've been here I don't remember that happening.

[Moonpearl 32]

I'm glad that you put it this way Moonpearl. I don't know why exactly I should join someone else's team if I think that someone must join my team, but I see what you are saying nonetheless. So let me ask you, when is the last time you let some newbie join your projects? Because in the time I've been here I don't remember that happening.

I have never let anyone join any projects of mine simply because I do not believe anyone would be interested in fulfilling fantasies that are my own. That's why I don't make topics about my projects in the first place.

[dolarmak 23]

I asked once, about 12 years ago and ended with the same result, since then I have worked hard on my own projects without asking for major help like a team. Sure I've asked for help with scripts if they don't work, but only when I exhaust myself trying to find the answer.

 

 

I have never let anyone join any projects of mine simply because I do not believe anyone would be interested in fulfilling fantasies that are my own. That's why I don't make topics about my projects in the first place.

 

This what I was saying. It's your fantasy, your project. People won't just drop their own projects to join some new comer, but that doesn't mean they should just give up. Persevering to make their own project even if it's alone shows dedication, and others are more open to help when they see that dedication and effort is being put forth. In the end only you can make your own game, no one else can. It's the same for writers, no one else can write your book, only you can.

 

I just hope this article and by extension this conversation helps new comers realize that they will more than likely need to start on their own, build up their skills and when they have something concrete to show that others will be more open to helping.

 

So don't give up on your dreams and your game, but work hard to make that dream come true.

[Saltome 16]

No, no, no... How many people do you know that can do something more productively by themselves than a group? Despite that you don't want to join their teams or let them in your project. I know nobody is obligated to work for someone less experienced, but experienced people don't actually make teams, which is why newcommers try to make their own, and you outcast them for it. And I don't want to hear that "dedication and determination" crap. Don't you remember how you were when you were new? Full of determination, hopes and dreams, and people just treat you like an obnoxious brat. Granted that we probably were, if anyone went trough the effort of taking me under their wing instead of ignoring me and crushing my dreams I would have reached this level of experience in a year not five. I'm sure that people would rather lead their own team instead of working for someone else, but they would sooner join another team than give up on their dreams. And this is where we fail as a community, we provide no projects for the inexperienced people to gain experience, which has numerous implications, one of which is wondering "why will no one join me". I guess I am getting a little ahead of myself, talking about what they do after they stop wondering why their team didn't work. Either way I am tired of trying to convince you so called "peers" to help the less experienced. It's time to lead by example, and let's see if anybody follows.

[dolarmak 23]

No, no, no... How many people do you know that can do something more productively by themselves than a group? Despite that you don't want to join their teams or let them in your project. I know nobody is obligated to work for someone less experienced, but experienced people don't actually make teams, which is why newcommers try to make their own, and you outcast them for it. And I don't want to hear that "dedication and determination" crap. Don't you remember how you were when you were new? Full of determination, hopes and dreams, and people just treat you like an obnoxious brat. Granted that we probably were, if anyone went trough the effort of taking me under their wing instead of ignoring me and crushing my dreams I would have reached this level of experience in a year not five. I'm sure that people would rather lead their own team instead of working for someone else, but they would sooner join another team than give up on their dreams. And this is where we fail as a community, we provide no projects for the inexperienced people to gain experience, which has numerous implications, one of which is wondering "why will no one join me". I guess I am getting a little ahead of myself, talking about what they do after they stop wondering why their team didn't work. Either way I am tired of trying to convince you so called "peers" to help the less experienced. It's time to lead by example, and let's see if anybody follows.

The problem with what you said is that even the new people don't want to join other people's teams. They only care about their own game and their own project and want their stuff done. None of the newbies coming to the forums like RMU are willing to help others out before they get what they want. This is why it's all flawed. And unfortunately you can't fix that because it's human nature to be greedy. So this article explains to those who really want to get their stuff made that they will more than likely need to work on it themselves.

 

When you first started using RM did you join another persons team to learn and gain experience? No because you were too busy wanting your own game/dream to be fulfilled. Every one on these forums are like that, even experienced users. The few times that large projects happen with a team, they are usually all friends IRL or on a tight knit forum with a specific goal they all share.

 

Newcomers aren't interested in other people's otherwise you'd see more teams made up of newbies, they are just as selfish as the rest of us. Which is fine, but you need to come to grips with that. People are selfish, they aren't going to change.

 

And whats wrong with that? This is a personal project forum, a place for free learning and spare time. I won't have my spare time wasted by a guy I don't know from a hole in the ground, who will more than likely drop the project he's doing in less than 2 weeks, will you?

 

And unless we see you join up and help two teams in quick succession no one is going to believe you're any different than the rest of us Salt. Talk is all well and good, but it's cheap compared to action, and I don't see you making any actions.

[Saltome 16]

I know people rather have their dreams achieved than helping out others, but that's just a stage. I've been trough it and I'm sure you have too, but I learned that you have to prove yourself first, and so can they. If you are willing to learn on your own I'm sure you are more likely to join someone else's team than to quit all together. It is human nature to want, but it's also their nature to adapt. And you can use that to mold them into better people.

What bothers me about this topic is that you are rejecting the opportunity to join someone else's team which in my opinion is the better option than doing it by yourself.

 

I didn't join any teams because there are none, everybody is making their own game. In fact I have been rejected multiple times, so you can't really say I haven't tried. And no, I hadn't made my goals public until recently, I spent most of my time trying to organize things for the community and help others instead of making games.

 

People change all the time, in order for present to become future you need change. I simply won't allow people to use that as excuse to stop looking for a solution. And there are actually a ton of newbie projects, the problem with them is that they fall apart too quickly because they lack solid foundations.

 

I actually wouldn't mind working with a newbie, they just have a habit of not listening to their team members and that defeats the purpose of me being in it.

 

If you are so concerned with me proving myself, feel free to recruit me in your next two projects. :)

[dolarmak 23]

I'm not saying that they can't achieve their goals, I am saying that the huge team building game they want to make right from the get go will take a lot longer than they think. They need to work on it and have concrete ideas and if possible a written script with something done on their game engine. Coming to the forums freshly new with only an idea will get people no where. I am not discouraging them, I am telling them they need to work at it first, a team is something that happens later. Ambitious projects that would likely take a team of experience people won't likely be achieved by a new comer to a forum with no experience. Their best bet is to either work on it alone until they build up the experience and relationships with people in the community, or put that project on hold and start with something a little less huge, and more in the scope of a beginner, while they keep working on the concept of the large project they want to build.

 

I find a lot of the newbies also only have part of a concept and not even a whole developed concept figured out. When all they have thought about is the battle system, or just one aspect of the game they will get no where with it.

 

 

How were you rejected form some ones team? people are always desperate for help why would they drop you?

[railfan101 0]

I agree with this article completely.  it has outlined my own experiences as well.  though i do wish i wasn't ignored so much.  

 

I don't intend on doing this for a living, as i am only a hobbyist for something like this.  On the other hand, getting some recognition for the work that is done would be nice once in a while.

 

i have been discouraged before about my skills, such as bad mapping skills, unorganized messes of games.  when your faced with criticisms like that, it's pretty hard not to feel like you shouldn't be trying this.  

 

i have felt that way many times.  and i have constantly been unable to complete projects because of that.  but i hope to complete my new game idea despite those who wish to insult my intelligence and claim i can't do anything.  

 

except unlike some other new members, i finally figured out why i get such remarks.  i post about my games too soon.  i make a post, then i don't have anything solid to show for it.  

 

that will be fixed at some point, though i'm sure no one will pay attention to my post as usually most of the time no one does anyway.  one gets used to being ignored after awhile and the hope anyone will bother reading or paying attention to what you have to say disappears.  as such i fully expect this post to get lost and forgotten.

[Saltome 16]

I agree with this article completely.  it has outlined my own experiences as well.  though i do wish i wasn't ignored so much.  

 

I don't intend on doing this for a living, as i am only a hobbyist for something like this.  On the other hand, getting some recognition for the work that is done would be nice once in a while.

 

i have been discouraged before about my skills, such as bad mapping skills, unorganized messes of games.  when your faced with criticisms like that, it's pretty hard not to feel like you shouldn't be trying this.  

 

i have felt that way many times.  and i have constantly been unable to complete projects because of that.  but i hope to complete my new game idea despite those who wish to insult my intelligence and claim i can't do anything.  

 

except unlike some other new members, i finally figured out why i get such remarks.  i post about my games too soon.  i make a post, then i don't have anything solid to show for it.  

 

that will be fixed at some point, though i'm sure no one will pay attention to my post as usually most of the time no one does anyway.  one gets used to being ignored after awhile and the hope anyone will bother reading or paying attention to what you have to say disappears.  as such i fully expect this post to get lost and forgotten.

 

Well you are a bit late to the party, I have little left to say against the article. But I can give you some advice, don't start projects you can't complete on your own, it's just going to make you feel worse about yourself being unable to complete it. Two, don't mind peoples' opinion so much, in the end they are just as incapable and insecure as you, if anything they have a little more experience. Three, be patient, just because you didn't make it doesn't mean that you won't. And four, don't give in to your negative emotions. You aren't the only one who gets ignored or bashed on. And what post doesn't get lost and forgotten? Do you think anyone remembers all of the thousands of posts on the forum? People can't even remember what they had for breakfast. And finally, you don't need my approval, you need your own. If you don't believe in what you do you will never be happy with it.

 

And since you consider yourself a newbie I'd like to invite you to the Training project, maybe after you finish your current project. If you join I will keep a close eye on you, help you deal with the problems you face and showcase your work regularly. You know, that one post that you among others ignored.

[Marked 197]

Do you think anyone remembers all of the thousands of posts on the forum? People can't even remember what they had for breakfast.

I remember all of them, and every member O.O

 

Back in the dayz, none of this was really a problem. Well, what Dolar says is true, the newbies get ignored. But most people had no troubles get people to join their teams.

 

The level of inexperience we're talking about here is quite unusual for a newbie to start a team. Why are you starting a team when you don't really know how to use the software? How do you know if you're going enjoy making teh games if you haven't taken the time to learn the games?

 

The reason why people have a tough time recruiting people here is because there's such a lack of people actively developing games. It also feels like everyone's sorta aged as well, a lot of members here don't have time. In the past we had tons of bored highschool kids.

[dolarmak 23]

I agree with this article completely.  it has outlined my own experiences as well.  though i do wish i wasn't ignored so much.  

 

I don't intend on doing this for a living, as i am only a hobbyist for something like this.  On the other hand, getting some recognition for the work that is done would be nice once in a while.

 

i have been discouraged before about my skills, such as bad mapping skills, unorganized messes of games.  when your faced with criticisms like that, it's pretty hard not to feel like you shouldn't be trying this.  

 

i have felt that way many times.  and i have constantly been unable to complete projects because of that.  but i hope to complete my new game idea despite those who wish to insult my intelligence and claim i can't do anything.  

 

except unlike some other new members, i finally figured out why i get such remarks.  i post about my games too soon.  i make a post, then i don't have anything solid to show for it.  

 

that will be fixed at some point, though i'm sure no one will pay attention to my post as usually most of the time no one does anyway.  one gets used to being ignored after awhile and the hope anyone will bother reading or paying attention to what you have to say disappears.  as such i fully expect this post to get lost and forgotten.

 

Well you are a bit late to the party, I have little left to say against the article. But I can give you some advice, don't start projects you can't complete on your own, it's just going to make you feel worse about yourself being unable to complete it. Two, don't mind peoples' opinion so much, in the end they are just as incapable and insecure as you, if anything they have a little more experience. Three, be patient, just because you didn't make it doesn't mean that you won't. And four, don't give in to your negative emotions. You aren't the only one who gets ignored or bashed on. And what post doesn't get lost and forgotten? Do you think anyone remembers all of the thousands of posts on the forum? People can't even remember what they had for breakfast. And finally, you don't need my approval, you need your own. If you don't believe in what you do you will never be happy with it.

 

And since you consider yourself a newbie I'd like to invite you to the Training project, maybe after you finish your current project. If you join I will keep a close eye on you, help you deal with the problems you face and showcase your work regularly. You know, that one post that you among others ignored.

 

@railfan101: What Saltome said is exactly what I wanted to say, which is more or less what the whole article was about. Don't give up, work hard and I'm sure you'll get your project finished.

 

 

I remember all of them, and every member O.O

 

Back in the dayz, none of this was really a problem. Well, what Dolar says is true, the newbies get ignored. But most people had no troubles get people to join their teams.

 

The level of inexperience we're talking about here is quite unusual for a newbie to start a team. Why are you starting a team when you don't really know how to use the software? How do you know if you're going enjoy making teh games if you haven't taken the time to learn the games?

 

The reason why people have a tough time recruiting people here is because there's such a lack of people actively developing games. It also feels like everyone's sorta aged as well, a lot of members here don't have time. In the past we had tons of bored highschool kids.

Yeah that also plays a big factor, not as many younger students here on the forums much these days. I wonder why that is?