What do you dislike in ATB Systems?

[DoubleX 5]

I want to know what are disliked in specific atb systems or the atb system concept in general. Just feel free to share that :)

For instance, I dislike atb systems with:

Fixed atb wait condition - Sometimes I might want to be more relaxed, so I might want the atb wait condition to be true whenever a party member can act(the loosest atb wait condition); Sometimes I might want more challenges, so I might want the atb wait condition to be true only when an action's executing or a message's displaying(the strictest atb wait condition). Therefore as a player, I want to be able to change the atb wait condition on the fly.

Hidden actor atb bars - To me, it's like hiding the actor hp, mp and/or tp bars. As atb bars display their actors' atb values, which is one of the most important information in atb system battles, I want to be able to keep track of them easily. At least, if the actor atb bars are hidden by default, I want to be able to change that to be shown instead.

[Ardaceus 21]

Let me say this once, I flipping dislike the ATB system!

 

I very much dislike systems that use ATB as a way to flow the game, it doesn't ruin the whole game for me though, like if I were to say that I hated Final Fantasy 7, 6, or 13 because of it, I really love those games (Yeah, I liked Final Fantasy 13). The only game I think that got it right was Final Fantasy 10, and I don't think it was ATB.

 

Reasons why I dislike it are because of how much rushed and relaxed it makes me feel. Like it feels like a turn based system, but really it is not, because the enemy can constantly attack you, while you sit there thinking of your next move. Like I was playing my 2nd favorite Final Fantasy game, #6, and I had to go and eat lunch during a battle. I thought I put the turn based system option that waits for your move to go, but no. That was the day I almost got beaten up by a flipping Jellyfish.

 

And I hate how the other characters ATB gauges run while you're busy dealing with one character's choice, like going through a mage's supremely wide variety of spells, or a physical ability guy's heap of abilities. But the worst offender is Cyan's Bushido techniques, while you're sitting there while all your other party members are not on guard, waiting to get whatever that 9 technique is, that stupid fossil dino is wrecking your party. Oh my, Cyan is finally at 8- and then the fossil dino kills Cyan, meaning that that waiting time wasn't worth anything.

 

When it comes to games, I prefer it when it has a battle system that is meant to be action paced like what we have seen already of FFXV, vs FF13's ATB fast paced ATB system which doesn't work well since you are pretty much clicking auto the whole battle and switching paradigms and hoping that your lead party member doesn't die. Or like a system that is rather relaxing where you get to constructively and selectively pick everyone's next move, like Pokemon, not where you can select the moves for your 4 or something characters and the enemies have already hit twice. But the one that I find that has done the best at making a battle system is Final Fantasy 12's battle system. I like how you can play the game in two ways, either selecting your party's moves, or using the gambit system, check it out. Or the other good one is the FF Tactics game or anything like it.

 

These are the reasons why I dislike the ATB system.

[Polraudio 122]

it highly depends on the game and how the ATB is done. EX: I played an RPG once where you could toggle a setting to make the game pause when someones ATB bar is full. So you could make it turn based or action based if you wanted. You can also adjust the speed of the battle. Options are always better. If you are going to make a static battle always provide options like turn based or action based if the game is action based or at least include an option to adjust the battle speed. Game devs are so lazy now days and dont think of every possible option that they will need, they just assume people are going to be fine with the way it is and the truth is that everyone is not going to be.

 

My rule of thumb. If you make an ATB include options to make the battle slower/faster and add an option so i can make it turn based by pausing all the atb bars till someone is done with their turn. If the game is only turn based then you are fine already.

 

If your talking about a different type of ATB like legend of zelda style then i will hate it no matter what if its made in rpg maker. rpg maker doesnt play very well with that type of battle system unless you can factor in the mouse for turning, scroll for switching action bar actions, attacking with left/right click and WASD for movement.

 

So i hate it and like it. Highly depends how the game is made and how its done. There is bad and good ways to do stuff.

Little off topic but a good example of stuff is oblivion vs skyrim. Sure you can add graphics to oblivion and make it look fricken amazing but the game will still play like shit and not be good enough to hold up to new standard gameplay. Gameplay is #1 in a game. I can stand a game with shitty as hell graphics and awesome gameplay. Make skyrim use all shitty graphics and it will still be an awesome game becasue the gameplay is good.

 

Dear, Developers.

OPTIONS OPTIONS OPTIONS OPTIONS OPTIONS OPTIONS! You can never have to many options in a game! It helps make your game good for ALL types of gamers.

[DoubleX 5]

Let me say this once, I flipping dislike the ATB system!

 

I very much dislike systems that use ATB as a way to flow the game, it doesn't ruin the whole game for me though, like if I were to say that I hated Final Fantasy 7, 6, or 13 because of it, I really love those games (Yeah, I liked Final Fantasy 13). The only game I think that got it right was Final Fantasy 10, and I don't think it was ATB.

 

Reasons why I dislike it are because of how much rushed and relaxed it makes me feel. Like it feels like a turn based system, but really it is not, because the enemy can constantly attack you, while you sit there thinking of your next move. Like I was playing my 2nd favorite Final Fantasy game, #6, and I had to go and eat lunch during a battle. I thought I put the turn based system option that waits for your move to go, but no. That was the day I almost got beaten up by a flipping Jellyfish.

 

And I hate how the other characters ATB gauges run while you're busy dealing with one character's choice, like going through a mage's supremely wide variety of spells, or a physical ability guy's heap of abilities. But the worst offender is Cyan's Bushido techniques, while you're sitting there while all your other party members are not on guard, waiting to get whatever that 9 technique is, that stupid fossil dino is wrecking your party. Oh my, Cyan is finally at 8- and then the fossil dino kills Cyan, meaning that that waiting time wasn't worth anything.

 

When it comes to games, I prefer it when it has a battle system that is meant to be action paced like what we have seen already of FFXV, vs FF13's ATB fast paced ATB system which doesn't work well since you are pretty much clicking auto the whole battle and switching paradigms and hoping that your lead party member doesn't die. Or like a system that is rather relaxing where you get to constructively and selectively pick everyone's next move, like Pokemon, not where you can select the moves for your 4 or something characters and the enemies have already hit twice. But the one that I find that has done the best at making a battle system is Final Fantasy 12's battle system. I like how you can play the game in two ways, either selecting your party's moves, or using the gambit system, check it out. Or the other good one is the FF Tactics game or anything like it.

 

These are the reasons why I dislike the ATB system.

So you mean those specific atb systems, but not the entire atb system concepts right?

 

it highly depends on the game and how the ATB is done. EX: I played an RPG once where you could toggle a setting to make the game pause when someones ATB bar is full. So you could make it turn based or action based if you wanted. You can also adjust the speed of the battle. Options are always better. If you are going to make a static battle always provide options like turn based or action based if the game is action based or at least include an option to adjust the battle speed. Game devs are so lazy now days and dont think of every possible option that they will need, they just assume people are going to be fine with the way it is and the truth is that everyone is not going to be.

 

My rule of thumb. If you make an ATB include options to make the battle slower/faster and add an option so i can make it turn based by pausing all the atb bars till someone is done with their turn. If the game is only turn based then you are fine already.

 

If your talking about a different type of ATB like legend of zelda style then i will hate it no matter what if its made in rpg maker. rpg maker doesnt play very well with that type of battle system unless you can factor in the mouse for turning, scroll for switching action bar actions, attacking with left/right click and WASD for movement.

 

So i hate it and like it. Highly depends how the game is made and how its done. There is bad and good ways to do stuff.

Little off topic but a good example of stuff is oblivion vs skyrim. Sure you can add graphics to oblivion and make it look fricken amazing but the game will still play like shit and not be good enough to hold up to new standard gameplay. Gameplay is #1 in a game. I can stand a game with shitty as hell graphics and awesome gameplay. Make skyrim use all shitty graphics and it will still be an awesome game becasue the gameplay is good.

 

Dear, Developers.

OPTIONS OPTIONS OPTIONS OPTIONS OPTIONS OPTIONS! You can never have to many options in a game! It helps make your game good for ALL types of gamers.

Agreed. Just be careful that giving too many options can drive some players off(I think it can be easily countered though, like encapsulating the advanced options in the "Advanced Options" selection or something like that).

[Ardaceus 21]

So you mean those specific atb systems, but not the entire atb system concepts right?

I just don't like the idea of taking live action with a turn based system, like I said, Final Fantasy 12 did it right with an ATB system, allowing you to selectively choose an ability out of many during the midst of a battle, without using the idea of turns and relying more on concentrated thinking on how you'll want to progress the battle, made for some pretty awesome boss battles. Or alternatively in this game, you can use the Gambit system, so that instead of what happened in Final fantasy 13 where you have no control over your entire party, you can selectively construct how they'll battle, and even how your lead attacks.

 

When it comes down to it, I really dislike it how you can look for a way in some of these Rpgs to put yourself at a better position in a fight if you are losing, and it doesn't rely on your ability to quickly dodge out of the way and heal like in DMC, or figure out how to save yourself for another turn in the turn based system. Cause in the ATB system, there is really no way to predict what you're opponent will do next unless if there is a timer or a warning signal.

 

Though I can understand how it seems like a good system, and if you want to make a game using it, by all means. I would never judge a whole game just because I dislike its battle system. It's just my opinion that it's my least favorite format of play style.